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Old 11-04-2016, 03:27 PM   #1
Xyno

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First of all I am looking forward to the ascension classes and the epic weapons 2.0 which will be the main features of the upcoming expansion. However I am afraid it will take a long time till we will be able to take full benefit of the new features.

What do I mean? Especially in context with the leveling of the ascension classes there are interesting milestones which will grant us access to the starter of the questline for the new epic weapon. Beside that there are some items with boost effects in respect to ascension abilities.

Milestones:
Ascension Level 5 (in one class) = one requirement for the new questline for epic weapons (after 29 days!)
Ascension Level 10 (in one class) = mythical earring with benefits related to the specific ascension class (after 94 days!)
[IMG]

Ascension Level 10 (in all classes = mythical charm with great boost for all ascension abilities (after 376 days!!!)
[IMG]

These items have also a pretty nice resolve stat, which will assist ambitious players to challenge encouters in higher tiers.

However - it´s a long, long way! For one Ascension class on max level you need approx. 94.000.000 Ascension XP. Each day we can grab a roll which will allow us to collect 1.000.000. XP. Without any further boosts it will mean that it will take 94 days till the first player will reach in ONE class level 10. For all classes it´s more than one year!!! That´s frustrating. I assume that November 2017 will be close to end of the KA expansion. That´s the time we will be finally in the position to get the mythical charm.

Based on my current knowledge I created a chart which will stress this issue.
[IMG]

I think there is a need to explain / improve the Ascension XP system. Maybe I am just wrong - if this is the case I kindly request a member of the Daybreak Team to correct my wrong assumptions.
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Old 11-04-2016, 04:00 PM   #2
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Doesn't normal xp also go into your ascension class as well? meaning you could grind it if you want?
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Old 11-04-2016, 04:51 PM   #3
Xyno

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Well - the point is that you are limited to earn 1.000.000 XP on your acension class each day. For sure - you can store the srolls to use all of them during the weekend but still - the total amount is the same. For sure you can grind XP on many ways but the issue is the limitation. For instance - you will earn a day 5.000.000 XP - only 1.000.000 XP will go to your ascension class if you use one of these daily scrolls which you can get via your ascension master.
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Old 11-04-2016, 10:45 PM   #4
Yahku

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I can only second this!

I can only dislike this experience system for many reasons:
  • Powerful mythical rewards which will be granted after the expansion is outdated cannot bring fun or motivation in any way as Xyno stated.
  • The most wanted features of the new addon can only be seen after a long waiting time.
  • High stress level. Being "forced" to login every day forces players to ritualise scroll gainings.
  • Holidays cannot really be used for catching up with others, preparing the character to be raidfit without much maintenance aside from raids.
  • This experience system is an attack to players having a real life - especially when trying to be strong for their raidforce. To be able to level the class, a character has to at least obtain the scroll every day. So vacation downgrades your character compared to others not having vacation due to missing scrolls for every day being away and not obtaining the scroll.
  • And at last, the most important point. What about new players and players doing a main switch? These are both no rare occurences. These players/characters are weak and for strong forces nearly worthless compared to other players. This will result in some players sticking to a mainchar which brings them less fun, and new players having hard troubles finding a connection to raidforces.

Feel free to clarify, if i got something wrong . . .
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Old 11-04-2016, 10:58 PM   #5
Wurm

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Excellent work Xyno, and wow that grind looks horrible.

One question can you post screenshots of all the different earrings and charms? If I really have to spend that much time on earning them I'd at least like to see what they look like.

*edit* I reached level 10 on Etherealist. And I received no earring is there someone I need to talk to?
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Old 11-04-2016, 10:59 PM   #6
kluxor

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log in real quick, get your scroll, and save it for later. If anything this promotes people playing their alts too if they're out of scrolls on their main. The "people with real lives arguement" is so weak and lame for anything in this game. Mostly grown adults play this game, and the majority of us have "real lives."
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Old 11-04-2016, 11:10 PM   #7
Bord

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Has it been confirmed that you can only get one scroll every 24 hours?

The daily quests reset every 18 hours. If devs believe there's only 18 hours in a day, this will be much shorter.
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Old 11-05-2016, 12:54 AM   #8
Xyno

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@Wurm:
Currently I can´t post the other earrings. One guild member received the earring after he talked to Beta Buffer NPC yesterday. If you have a fresh toon on Beta and you will select an ascension class now, you will directly get this ascension class on max level including the related earring. However - if you started your ascension class some days before and you level it to max - it will not work and you will not get the earring as reward. I will try to make a few twink beta copies to see the other earrings within the next days.
Other charms? As far as I know they will be just one charm which will affect all ascension abilities.
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Old 11-05-2016, 12:58 AM   #9
sycla

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So we will get the BIS charm if we log in everyday for a year..that will be just in time for new expac and charm to be useless again.
Rethink the time on grind..one possible solution is to leave the time for first ascension class as it now exists but reduce the xp required by half for the next class to take up so its 94 days for first lvl 10 of one class and then its 46 days followed by 23 days for the other ascension classes.
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Old 11-05-2016, 01:17 AM   #10
Kander

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Numbers are still being tweaked. They can also be tweaked on the fly [Live].

We also have plans for double Ascension XP type events, etc.

We do not intend for anyone to have a level 10 overnight. Let alone 4 of them overnight.

That said. Nothing is set in stone.
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Old 11-05-2016, 01:29 AM   #11
Wurm

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Thank you.

Looks like I need to make Stormravenxx now Tongue
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Old 11-05-2016, 01:34 AM   #12
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One year is a bit much though.

How bout a month per =) four months is about the lifespan of your expands
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Old 11-05-2016, 01:37 AM   #13
Talduke

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That is good to hear about double events and the possibly of tweaking. As it sits I fear the current grind would take so long that new players or potential returning players would be pushed away. I actually have a friend who use to play all the time ask me about the xpac and when I started to explain this system he got excited. When I got to the part about the xp wall he basically said yeah no thanks and that was that. No matter how much I try and convince him to come back to the game it always comes back to the grind to get caught up. I'm sure in it the only one with this experience.

Not to pull away from the main point of this topic but that charm click effect is useless with 5min up time every 4hrs! So you go through all the work to max four classes and get a nice dps bump once per raid night that will affect 1-2 rotations of your Ascension abilities bc of long reuse times. Not to mention if it's a botched pull and you wipe. This should really be instant cast and like 10min reuse so it can be utilized on hard fights and progression kills.
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Old 11-05-2016, 01:39 AM   #14
ZUES

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So we can't get the earring on beta anymore?
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Old 11-05-2016, 01:43 AM   #15
Rondo9

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Well this be double the amount of XP you can gain on a scroll (ie 2mil XP instead of 1mil) or just be quicker to consume the scrolls?
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Old 11-05-2016, 01:46 AM   #16
ZUES

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I like the 2 mil scroll idea better : P
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Old 11-05-2016, 02:03 AM   #17
Rondo9

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Well it really make no sense have bonus Ascension XP days if you're still limited to same amount of XP you can gain. Unless you're someone that stock piled dozens of the scrolls.
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Old 11-05-2016, 02:17 AM   #18
Yahku

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I cannot login if i am on vacation. So being away a few days directly makes my character less powerful in relation to all the others. Thats not a problem, if leveling can be completed in the foreseeable future, but with months or even a year to reach this? A painful setback!

In addition, i can of course get the scrolls for later with my alternative chars usually. But what about characters newly created? Many people do not know what new character they want to play in half a year (not talking about me here, i am more than happy with my main and second char!).

Sounds promising. I can absolutely understand the one night argument. But what about limits allowing to max. out the level in one month instead of a year? Still a very long time, but that would not paralyze new players/characters in this extreme way.


An interesting question. Its very important for most players to have clear information here. It would be sad if one part of the players would use their scrolls diligently every day if others would be able to pass their experience by the doubled amount if saved scrolls would all be doubled in such an event! It would be very fine and important to have these event information early.

In addition the question about the time is very important - 18 hours, 24? just everyday, reset at X:00? Something else?
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Old 11-05-2016, 02:47 AM   #19
kluxor

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Go on vacation for a week....then you get set back for a week. Not really that big of a deal, if missing out on 7million ascension xp is going to ruin your vacation then you didnt have enough fun on vacation. In regards to newly created characters....well, theyre new, so theyre not gonna just start rick rolling mobs right away.
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Old 11-05-2016, 02:56 AM   #20
Agarth

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How about double scrolls for Members ? ( would speed up the whole ascension leveling ).
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Old 11-05-2016, 11:47 AM   #21
Xyno

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Thanks for the first feeback. Good to know that nothing is set in stone. I agree, it wouldn´t be nice either to reach that milestone overnight. Nevertheless between "overnight" and ">365 days" are still many options ;-)

I like to raise your awarness also to another issue which is related to the ascension leveling.

In one BETA raid we killed Amalgam of Order and Chaos (Tier 2). He dropped an ingredient for grandmaster spell for Etherealist Level 10.

[IMG]

The requirements to read/create this spell are: Etherealist Level 10 (that´s clear) and you have to have the previous version of this ability, the Master Spell - which is equal to the process for standard abilities.

[IMG]

First of all it will take a long time till anybody will reach that ascension level and even if he or she will have that level, it´s useless if you don´t have the master spell. So I am afraid that a lot of these ingredients will fill the guild bank before anyone can take benefit.

In respect to the ascension leveling it could be useful, if special ascension XP scrolls (for instance for 13.000.000 XP) would drop.
---
For all of you that didn´t spend further thoughts on the quality of the ascension spells I like to explain it briefly.

If your reach a specific ascension level you will get the apprentice version of the spell. Via time (research) or money (DBC) you can upgrade it to the next level. I assume that this process will be valid from Journeyman to Grandmaster.

[IMG]

Crafters can craft the following ascension spells after KA TS timeline and enough faction to buy the recipies.

Jeweler: Geomancer spells
aITEM 2129285890 -1290562487 0 0 0:[Bloody Tooth Jewelry Essentials]/a (journeyman)
aITEM 1052802247 315398109 0 0 0:[Bloody Tooth Advanced Jewelry]/a (expert, grandmaster, ancient)

Alchemist: Thaumaturgist spells
aITEM 296888331 -599003328 0 0 0:[Bloody Tooth Alchemy Essentials]/a (journeyman)
aITEM -1102469765 -1840951711 0 0 0:[Bloody Tooth Advanced Alchemy]/a (expert, grandmaster, ancient)

Sage: Ethereralist spells + Elementalist spells
aITEM -897042194 -644977274 0 0 0:[Bloody Tooth Scribing Essentials]/a (journeyman)
aITEM -1226916056 1267747513 0 0 0:[Bloody Tooth Advanced Scribing]/a (expert, grandmaster, ancient)
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Old 11-05-2016, 01:16 PM   #22
Ellimist

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Can't you get all 4 classes in one go just by swapping them around? So all 4 should complete at the same time assuming you play 4mill worth of xp per day.
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Old 11-05-2016, 01:40 PM   #23
Stimps

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Pretty sure only one scroll per day period
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Old 11-05-2016, 01:43 PM   #24
Materfarmer

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You can only level as fast as the special scrolls allow. Currently you are limited to ONE scroll per 24 hours for ONE million exp no matter how you split it up.
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Old 11-05-2016, 03:06 PM   #25
ZUES

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There are two major holdups for guilds in this expansion...

1. Resolve requirements per one character. If a couple/few people don't show up then you may have to call raid for the night.
2. Ascension requirements. If a couple/few people don't show up then you may have to call raid for the night. If a combination leave the guild, let's say 3 Geomancers, the guild is screwed for more than a raid...

I offer two possible solutions...

1. Give mercs the resolve that we all know they should have. Make them immune to indirect AOE damage.
2. Allow us to level all 4 ascension classes at a time, or just completely remove the bottleneck and let us do our thing. It's FOUR classes! That's a serious time investment.

There's no reason an entire raid force should be held back because 1-3 people can't show up, leave a guild, etc. This can be a domino effect on the health of the game.
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Old 11-05-2016, 04:24 PM   #26
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I really hope the "one every 24 hours" is a daily reset, say at midnight or 2am. Some days you might be limited to a late night login, others you might be jumping in early. A fixed reset gives the most flexibility without having forward or backward creep a 24 or 18 hour reset would cause. You get your scroll if you log in that day, no matter what time you log in. No having to set an alarm.
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Old 11-05-2016, 04:33 PM   #27
Errrorr

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This will only matter for the hardest mobs in game. It's not going to block more than perhaps 10 guilds in total.
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Old 11-05-2016, 04:53 PM   #28
Trepide@Storms

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Well, above everything, the1M per day limit is NOT fun!
Off course nobody want people reaching lvl10 in the 4 ascension classes overnight, but the everyday grind (or at least log in) for a year is not the solution...

As said above, between overnight and 365+ days, there is a lot of options Wink
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Old 11-05-2016, 06:10 PM   #29
ZUES

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So it's only going to effect 240 players so we should ignore it.
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Old 11-05-2016, 07:11 PM   #30
Kander

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No.
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