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Old 08-28-2012, 10:45 AM   #1
Proud_Silence

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No matter how much time and effort you invest in a toon, all it takes is a lvl 30 beastlord to destroy your fun. What's going on in the "lowbie" BG's is just sad. Yet another project of SOE that's halfbaked and broken. In what world should someone at lvl 30 even imagine surviving against a raid geared, fully adorned and mythed lvl 80 + player ? in carebear happy land maybe, but not in a mmorpg !? The more time you invest in a toon, the more powerful it gets, and someone investing 10% of that time should not be able to compete on a eye-to-eye basis.

Everytime i play one of my lvl 80 toons it feels like sony is ramming up a thick branch in that place the sun isn't shining.

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Old 08-28-2012, 12:49 PM   #2
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I disagree, if a tank keeps the BLs taunted they're easy to take down.

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Old 08-28-2012, 01:00 PM   #3
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Doesn't matter what they do, either you have 80s that are uncoordinated/unskilled and losing to low levels or you have 80s wiping the floor with 30s.  Neither is really a good thing for pvp, but most people still refuse to accept that pvp in this game was broken since inception.

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Old 08-28-2012, 01:04 PM   #4
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you disagree with what ?

Where am i saying BL's are hard to kill ?

The point is a lvl 30 BL can and will do more dmg then 80+ toons that invested countless more hours in getting the toon to that stage, just because Primals are doing a disproportionate ammount of dmg.

Sure you might see other classes being on top of the total dmg, that's from splash dmg tho. I see beastlords everyday just wreckin havoc. Know why they aren't always on top of dmg parse ? because people die so fast, there's no time to accumulate the dmg.

Frankly, if you don't see the issue with BL's in 30-89BG's, you must lack the gaming experience, or play one yourself.

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Old 08-28-2012, 01:15 PM   #5
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Proud_Silence wrote:

Frankly, if you don't see the issue with BL's in 30-89BG's, you must lack the gaming experience, or play one yourself.

No on either account, and I wreck BL's nightly on my SK.

Sure primals are a bit lopsided, but I've seen 30's warlocks that can pump out damage as well.

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Old 08-28-2012, 01:46 PM   #6
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Ulrichvon wrote:

Proud_Silence wrote:

Frankly, if you don't see the issue with BL's in 30-89BG's, you must lack the gaming experience, or play one yourself.

No on either account, and I wreck BL's nightly on my SK.

Sure primals are a bit lopsided, but I've seen 30's warlocks that can pump out damage as well.

What exactly do you not understand? it's not about how easy you can kill BL's. It's about them outshining every other dps class with 6 CA's - when everyone else has 20+ spells/CA's to get to Master lvl.

Effort vs reward to cut it down even more for you. Is a main difference between a random ego shooter and a mmorpg. You build your toon in a mmorpg, it gets stronger the more time you invest.

person A puts 100 hrs into a toon

person B puts 5hrs into his toon.

Why should Person B do more dmg when having 3x less CA/spells and wearing treasured gear compared to top geared and skilled Person A ?

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Old 08-28-2012, 02:41 PM   #7
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Proud_Silence wrote:

Effort vs reward to cut it down even more for you. Is a main difference between a random ego shooter and a mmorpg. You build your toon in a mmorpg, it gets stronger the more time you invest.

Actually try the class and get back to me on effort vs reward.  Enjoy grinding that warder up.  As far as the rest, its not like all 20 spells matter on a dps class, in truth its only a half dozen or so you hit every second they're up.

Yes BL's are a little easier to master than other DPS classes, but they're also easy to deal with in pvp.  Honestly, you pretending a ranger is significantly harder?

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Old 08-28-2012, 03:49 PM   #8
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i have a beastlord at lvl 70, with 3 pets leveled up. There is nothing difficult about beastlords, use CA's to fill gauge, once you reached the desired rage lvl, unleash hell on your target.

You can deny what i'm saying, doesn't change the fact that the only dps classes able to compete with competent lvl 80+ classes are Beastlords.

no one cares you know how to taunt people, or how uber you are in reckless with deathmarch running and divine aura. It's not about you and your ability to cope with beastlords.

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Old 08-28-2012, 04:39 PM   #9
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Proud_Silence wrote:

You can deny what i'm saying, doesn't change the fact that the only dps classes able to compete with competent lvl 80+ classes are Beastlords.

Again, there are a number of warlocks in the same lower tiers putting out similar numbers.

I think your just mad that lower levels are getting bonuses so that they aren't completely rolled over by 80-89 players.  I understand the arguement your making here, but if they were inconsequential players I fail to see how that offers a very entertaining PVP experience.

If you want to make an arguement that specific primalz should probably be adjusted, or if the proc rate of the abilities to build rage is too high for BL's at all levels, I'd find more room to agree with you.  I personally don't think they should build rage in pvp as fast as they do in pve.

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Old 08-29-2012, 05:21 AM   #10
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Ulrichvon wrote:

Proud_Silence wrote:

You can deny what i'm saying, doesn't change the fact that the only dps classes able to compete with competent lvl 80+ classes are Beastlords.

Again, there are a number of warlocks in the same lower tiers putting out similar numbers.

Yes and every 4 years February has more then 28 days. a lvl 30 warlock has one "big" nuke, Distortion. Dark nebula a weak encounter wide dmg/stun, and maybe Absolution, really can't recall when they get that. A few weak dots too. Maybe if they get to cast freely they can gather a decent total dmg ammount, however, warlock at lvl 30 will not have more then 10% casting speed bonus, and all the "big" nukes take multiple seconds to cast. While BL CA's are uninteruptable, and on top of that the pet just automatically attacks and lands 3k+ blows (when average HP of players in 30-89BG is 15 - 25k hp)

Next time you see a lvl 30 Sorceror on top of dmg parse, look how many killshots he got. Will never come close to a BL. And i'm 95% sure he will have had a taunting tank and 2+ healers along.

I think your just mad that lower levels are getting bonuses so that they aren't completely rolled over by 80-89 players.  I understand the arguement your making here, but if they were inconsequential players I fail to see how that offers a very entertaining PVP experience.

There was no pleasure in killing 30-79's back a while ago when BG's were still separated in each tier, but somehow high lvls could end up in lower lvls matches. I also see how hard it is to get the finetuning on something like trying to equalize lvl 30 and 89 players. But you can't deny the fact it takes x times longer to get a toon fully geared/adorned/AA'ed out at 89 then to do so at lvl 30. And if SoE is letting lvl 30's dominate lvl 80+ it sends out a very mixed signal

If you want to make an arguement that specific primalz should probably be adjusted, or if the proc rate of the abilities to build rage is too high for BL's at all levels, I'd find more room to agree with you.  I personally don't think they should build rage in pvp as fast as they do in pve.

Both rage filling and  dmg numbers are outrageous in pvp. The reason i chose title of the thread the way i did, was because that's exactly how i feel. I love to min/max my toons, had a wiz at lvl 30 maxed on AA, all pvp gear (Pre GU63) and after a few BG matches had to realize the 30-89 BG's are favoring mellee over casters big time. everything takes long to cast, and scout still get to use CA's at .25sec speed. The entire BL nightmare is just the cherry on top. They dropping Ice Comet - style attacks multiple times in 5 sec.

So that's how lowbie BG matches make me feel. I log in happy, eager to blow some stuff up, and after a couple BG matches it simply feels like i've completely wasted my time trying to max out my lvl 80 toons.  Its frustrating.

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Old 08-29-2012, 05:45 AM   #11
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Beastlord dps has been OP since day one.  There is no news here.

You are trying to make a case on how you should have a significant advantage because of your level yet game update notes say you should expect otherwise.  It has nothing to do with higher level.  It's just the class.  I find it funny how many people have spent days and days of playtime just to lock/max out toons for that 80s advantage in bgs.  Too bad it doesn't usually pay off.  It's about classes, not levels.  Different classes peak at different levels in that 30-89 range that no amount of gear advantages and AA abilities can make up at 89.  If you took a moment to understand how lazily they decided to configure stats and spell/ability dmg/heal amounts to make levels 'agnostic' you'd understand this.

As far as your whine about 30-89 bgs favoring melee over casters is ridiculous.  At least you understand on some level that your level 30 wizard's hindrance was his casting speed...maybe you should find a nice level to lock where you can address that issue in reforged gear?  Or if you want to fall back on "what mmorpg is all about" despite the fact that locking to kill lower levels doesn't sound like much of a high horse to be on, why not pregroup with people that can help?  Maybe an illy, fast healer or taunting tank?  Just saying.

That said, BLs are easy to kill - their pets can be two shotted and then they are walking dead until they can summon another.  If you don't have the ranged dps to kill their pet then group with someone that does if it makes you so mad.

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Old 08-29-2012, 08:45 AM   #12
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Applo wrote:

Beastlord dps has been OP since day one.  There is no news here.

You are trying to make a case on how you should have a significant advantage because of your level yet game update notes say you should expect otherwise.  It has nothing to do with higher level.  It's just the class.  I find it funny how many people have spent days and days of playtime just to lock/max out toons for that 80s advantage in bgs.  Too bad it doesn't usually pay off.  It's about classes, not levels.  Different classes peak at different levels in that 30-89 range that no amount of gear advantages and AA abilities can make up at 89.  If you took a moment to understand how lazily they decided to configure stats and spell/ability dmg/heal amounts to make levels 'agnostic' you'd understand this.

If that's what SoE wanted, they should have disabled characters for 30-89 BG's and just let you pick a class when entering BG hub. But we get to play our actual characters, so i expect a lvl 89 Guardian to perform better then a lvl 30 one. 

As far as your whine about 30-89 bgs favoring melee over casters is ridiculous.  At least you understand on some level that your level 30 wizard's hindrance was his casting speed...maybe you should find a nice level to lock where you can address that issue in reforged gear?  Or if you want to fall back on "what mmorpg is all about" despite the fact that locking to kill lower levels doesn't sound like much of a high horse to be on, why not pregroup with people that can help?  Maybe an illy, fast healer or taunting tank?  Just saying.

Narcism and arrogance, yummi ingrediences for a speech, just not helpful if you want to be taken serious. Care to explain why my point ( not whine) about mellees being favored over casters is ridiculous ? you just went on about how i should level up  and/or reforge my gear for cast speed.  altho just earlier you said it's about classes, not levels. Or how i should group up to form the holy trinity, in order to be en par with certain mellee classes ? 

That said, BLs are easy to kill - their pets can be two shotted and then they are walking dead until they can summon another. 

Who's on the high horse now, preaching down ? Show me where i said anything about how hard or easy it is to kill a BL ?

If you don't have the ranged dps to kill their pet then group with someone that does if it makes you so mad.

thanks for proving you don't even know what i'm mad about.

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Old 08-29-2012, 09:39 AM   #13
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U problem dontis BLs, u problem is the buff low lvls get in BGs. On my lowbie WL lvl 80, on spells i do 15k dmg on lvls 80 do 2k to lvls 30. Top joke on buff is i join BGs on lvl 30 sin with T1 gear(not even all slots with items) and fully geared lvls 89 die on 1 vs 1 cos i do pew pew dmg and i get no dmg. More lvls is only more toys.

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Old 08-29-2012, 12:34 PM   #14
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The whole point of 30-89 BG is to get characters of widely different levels within shouting distance of the same rough capabilities, to foster a broader population.  It's certainly not a perfect solution, but aside from temporarily promoting everyone to 89 the current method at least gets it to a point where everyone in the zone can play along.

 

But it doesn't sound like the OP's issue is with levelism so much as with a certain class being overpowered.  "Working as intended."  Other posters have discussed how to neutralize such threats.  Deal with them in the most enjoyable way possible.  Hardly any character can long withstand focused fire if you get them separated (or are willing to suicide gank them).  Stick with your team and the tides of battle will bring your foe into your sights soon enough.  Kill them, then.

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Old 08-30-2012, 06:07 AM   #15
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Proud_Silence wrote:

Applo wrote:

Beastlord dps has been OP since day one.  There is no news here.

You are trying to make a case on how you should have a significant advantage because of your level yet game update notes say you should expect otherwise.  It has nothing to do with higher level.  It's just the class.  I find it funny how many people have spent days and days of playtime just to lock/max out toons for that 80s advantage in bgs.  Too bad it doesn't usually pay off.  It's about classes, not levels.  Different classes peak at different levels in that 30-89 range that no amount of gear advantages and AA abilities can make up at 89.  If you took a moment to understand how lazily they decided to configure stats and spell/ability dmg/heal amounts to make levels 'agnostic' you'd understand this.

If that's what SoE wanted, they should have disabled characters for 30-89 BG's and just let you pick a class when entering BG hub. But we get to play our actual characters, so i expect a lvl 89 Guardian to perform better then a lvl 30 one. 

That's a fair assumption but it isn't the case because of the way they coded it.  Even before the pvp update, certain stats were based on percentages relative to your level.  That's why in open PvP if you were say, level 39, you had less PvP percent damage reduction for the same amount of toughness as you did at level 30.  They took the same approach and applied it to almost everything -- stats, dmg output, etc.  That is why different classes peak at different levels.  Example, a level 50 spell like Ice Comet will do more dmg as a level 50 wizard than a level 51 wizard; likewise, if they are both in the same gear, the level 50 wizard will have better stats than the level 51 wizard.  To compound this, in order to compensate for AA abilities and gear access for higher levels that the lower levels do not have access to it's a depreciating return the higher you are for stats/dmg output.    

As far as your whine about 30-89 bgs favoring melee over casters is ridiculous.  At least you understand on some level that your level 30 wizard's hindrance was his casting speed...maybe you should find a nice level to lock where you can address that issue in reforged gear?  Or if you want to fall back on "what mmorpg is all about" despite the fact that locking to kill lower levels doesn't sound like much of a high horse to be on, why not pregroup with people that can help?  Maybe an illy, fast healer or taunting tank?  Just saying.

Narcism and arrogance, yummi ingrediences for a speech, just not helpful if you want to be taken serious. Care to explain why my point ( not whine) about mellees being favored over casters is ridiculous ? you just went on about how i should level up  and/or reforge my gear for cast speed.  altho just earlier you said it's about classes, not levels. Or how i should group up to form the holy trinity, in order to be en par with certain mellee classes ? 

Dude I don't mean to be rude, but read what I wrote and think about it.  Classes peak at different levels, wizards do not peak at 30, hence my suggestion -- there are several mages that peak at low levels.  And parses prove time and time again that mages are not inferior to melee in lowbie bgs -- when both sides have good healers, mages beat the crap out of melee in dps, they typically do anyway.  I'm not going to argue the point anymore because neither of us can prove it.  My comment about grouping is because you were talking about staying true to mmorpgs...pre-group if you want to maxmize your experience. 

It wasn't my intent to sound combative, but what happened to BGs is rather annoying, I warned about it on test.  A lot can be blamed on the people that prepared to game the system before roll out.  So what you are crying about is the exact effect of people like yourself that SoE felt they had to mitigate by overreacting to commnity rage.  So adjust your habits to take advantage of the broken system we have since it's clearly your style or suck it up.

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Old 08-30-2012, 12:34 PM   #16
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The problem is not that lower lvls get a dps buff. That only makes sense.

The problem is that on any BG parse a BL lvl 30 in poor gear is the only one doing more Dps than a twinked out lvl 80-89. I see this more and more as people lock at the 80s lvl rather than the lower lvls. The top 10 parsers in a BGs are lvl 80+ with the exception of the BLs and a random mage.

Everyone knows BLs are OP but there will not be a fix until 70% of every BG are composed of BLs and the other 25% is mages and 5% rangers. Notice not a healer in any group? happens more often now then every before.

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Old 08-30-2012, 03:52 PM   #17
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ynicisim@Nagafen wrote:

The problem is not that lower lvls get a dps buff. That only makes sense.

The problem is that on any BG parse a BL lvl 30 in poor gear is the only one doing more Dps than a twinked out lvl 80-89. I see this more and more as people lock at the 80s lvl rather than the lower lvls. The top 10 parsers in a BGs are lvl 80+ with the exception of the BLs and a random mage.

Everyone knows BLs are OP but there will not be a fix until 70% of every BG are composed of BLs and the other 25% is mages and 5% rangers. Notice not a healer in any group? happens more often now then every before.

I guess I'm in different matches than everyone else.

Everyone I saw toping the parses lastnight:

50's Necros

80's SK

50-70 conjy

80's Warlock

random 50-80 predators

50-89 BL

Maybe if I looked 10+ slots down on the dps list I might find a 30's BL ahead of some higher level dps player, but I'm more inclined to blame that other player more than the BL (yes some primals are too big, and savagrey goes up too fast in PVP making the class too easy mode).  But it seems well played toons beat them.

Granted, I was on my SK griefing BL's every chance I got, so maybe in other matches that people don't kill them easily they parse higher.

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Old 08-30-2012, 11:07 PM   #18
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just make a 89 beastlord with full tso raid gear to counter.  high levels have a way bigger advantage with 3x aa, more abilities, and tons of raid gear to choose from.

and i still don't understand why people think high parse means lots of kills.  it just means they have alot of aoes.  yes it might be that they do indeed kill alot of people but it is not always the case, especially when the other team has a mythed inquisitor.

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Old 08-31-2012, 06:08 AM   #19
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IMHO, BL pets need adj. Their survivabilty is too high. High DPS BL pets should be glass cannons, and Tank BL pets should have high toughness with very little DPS, and DPS advantage to using them in BG's.

BL's can hit pretty hard in BG's, but some BL pet's seem like they can out damage parse their owners 3-1.

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Old 09-20-2012, 03:18 PM   #20
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Thoughts on leaving 80 and going to 92 where you will not have these issues? 80 to me has always seemed like a strange level to lock at. /shrug, to each their own I guess

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Old 09-20-2012, 03:24 PM   #21
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Killque wrote:

Thoughts on leaving 80 and going to 92 where you will not have these issues? 80 to me has always seemed like a strange level to lock at. /shrug, to each their own I guess

I admit I had more fun in the lower tier.

The upper tier bores me pretty fast and after allowing myself to level, I'm just not really doing BG's anymore.

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Old 09-20-2012, 04:23 PM   #22
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Ulrichvon wrote:

Killque wrote:

Thoughts on leaving 80 and going to 92 where you will not have these issues? 80 to me has always seemed like a strange level to lock at. /shrug, to each their own I guess

I admit I had more fun in the lower tier.

The upper tier bores me pretty fast and after allowing myself to level, I'm just not really doing BG's anymore.

I very much agree with Ulrichvon on that point--the 30-89 BG Tier is often much more exciting than the 90-92 Tier.  I've played in both fairly often the past few months, and have found the 92 Tier (let's just call it that, given that most 90s and 91s are only bumps in the road to many 92s, lol) is home to sometimes painfully glacial matches.

Picture a 6-v-6 where both teams have 2-3 healers and the rest are tanks ... EVERYONE does loads of damage and healing, but the match is decided by the team that got the relic first (generally) and there may have only been 2 or 3 deaths TOTAL (usually the relic holder).  Sure that's an exaggeration ... but only slightly; I've been in several matches on my 92 warden that went like that.

Then there's the 30-89 Tier, where there are hardly ever any healers.  Sure, when a team gets a healer or two it's often guaranteed a win (because the other team has none)--but that's not always the case.  Healers can die messily, too.  SMILEY  In the ScoutQuest BG Tier the action can be a bit more ... active.  Sure, you'll probably die a lot--but so will everyone else.  (Fans of FPS games would almost certainly find playing a scout in the lower BG tier appealing, I'd think.)  Most lower tier matches are 80% scouts and casters, with the occasional tank and healer thrown in (probably because they're doing their dailies, lol).  Carnage abounds. 

 

Unrest.Tyraen (59 Ranger--going to lock at 60 and play up some other alts in the BG)

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Old 09-21-2012, 12:52 PM   #23
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The dps to heal ratios in the lower tier seem more appropiate.

For example, a team of 1 tank and 5 dps can win a gears match against a team with 3 healers, 2 utility, and a tank.

That is well played dps can and will kill healers in lower tiers, in upper tiers, a couple healers together is a marathon to take down, and if they have a half concious tank, you'll get taunted off before you can bring them down.

Net result, long, glacial combat that is overall rather dull.

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Old 09-21-2012, 02:55 PM   #24
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Ulrichvon wrote:

That is well played dps can and will kill healers in lower tiers, in upper tiers, a couple healers together is a marathon to take down, and if they have a half concious tank, you'll get taunted off before you can bring them down.

Net result, long, glacial combat that is overall rather dull.

I think thats more what you meant to say.  As for the dull glacial combat thing, thats more a problem of either 3 healers on one team or the more tedious issue of divine guidance being activated before the cleric is put into combat.

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Old 09-21-2012, 03:16 PM   #25
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Delethen@Mistmoore wrote:

Ulrichvon wrote:

That is well played dps can and will kill healers in lower tiers, in upper tiers, a couple healers together is a marathon to take down, and if they have a half concious tank, you'll get taunted off before you can bring them down.

Net result, long, glacial combat that is overall rather dull.

I think thats more what you meant to say.  As for the dull glacial combat thing, thats more a problem of either 3 healers on one team or the more tedious issue of divine guidance being activated before the cleric is put into combat.

Nah, the difference in hps between upper and lower tier is far greater than the difference in dps landed.

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Old 09-21-2012, 04:31 PM   #26
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Ulrichvon wrote:

Delethen@Mistmoore wrote:

Ulrichvon wrote:

That is well played dps can and will kill healers in lower tiers, in upper tiers, a couple healers together is a marathon to take down, and if they have a half concious tank, you'll get taunted off before you can bring them down.

Net result, long, glacial combat that is overall rather dull.

I think thats more what you meant to say.  As for the dull glacial combat thing, thats more a problem of either 3 healers on one team or the more tedious issue of divine guidance being activated before the cleric is put into combat.

Nah, the difference in hps between upper and lower tier is far greater than the difference in dps landed.

Everyone must be getting one shotted down there then, thats all I can say.

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Old 09-26-2012, 11:38 AM   #27
swedago

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Funny thing is that people who complain the most have hardly any AA, crappy gear, no adorns, and all adept CAs/Spells =P

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Old 09-26-2012, 01:53 PM   #28
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swedago wrote:

Funny thing is that people who complain the most have hardly any AA, crappy gear, no adorns, and all adept CAs/Spells =P

LOL, I wouldn't say that at all.

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Old 09-30-2012, 04:24 PM   #29
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Sooo what you're really trying to say OP is that you got spanked by a lowbie beastlord and instantly came on the boards to complain about it instead of learning how to kill them?  Got it.

As a ranger...root...back up...kill it.  I guess Rangers are more overpowered than beastlords with your logic.  Some classes will die by other classes easily...welcome to pvp.

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