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Old 02-22-2012, 09:50 PM   #31
Bruener

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Damager wrote:

Bruener wrote:

Damager wrote:

I can whole heartedly say removing strikethrough Immunity from brawlers would do absolutely nothing for any other class (no it will not increase the plates survivability ROFL) and would have zero effect on any raid that uses a plate MT for progression, This is well common sence. What it will do is cripple brawlers and remove one way that a raid may or may not have succeeded against a certain type of mob and in the end the plate tank is still sitting where they have been.

Wrong.  It would allow them to utilize the mechanic the way it was meant to be.  SOE is constantly introducing content with too high of strike through that ends up being killable by Brawlers and completely unbalanced when using a Plate tank.

So what it would do is allow them to introduce more balanced content instead of take a guess throw mob out there watch Brawlers tank it no problem while Plate tanks are taking massive damage trying to do the same thing.

If strike through immunity is a non-issue than you won't miss it, right?

Incorrect. Sit back for a second and digest what you just said.

Your whole objective is to nerf brawler so they nerf the content so plates are superior /shrug 

You make an Assumption that they will change the content. If they dont you are where you are now as I stated.

Wouldnt it make more sense to just ask for the direct path and say remove strikethrough from the mobs? But NO some genious say's we nerf a class so they nerf the content ROFL. If I want a glass of water I say I want a glass of water, I dont say ban plastics so my water has to come in a glass ROFL!

Which part of ask directly for what your class needs rather than nerf another do you not understand? Of course as I stated it will cripple brawlers, and as stated it will have no effect on plates. If they nerf the content and remove strikethrough then yes that would bennifit plates, again as I stated.

Here is the difference between me and you.  I understand why they introduce a mechanic like strike through and the advantagae it has in being used as a tool to help keep Fighter avoidance in check.

You do not.

I also understand how the field of Fighters really sits in terms of balance and the large gap that has been around since DoV beta.

You do not.

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Old 02-22-2012, 09:54 PM   #32
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Corydonn wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

If brawlers are unkillable then raid content in this game would be cleared, clearly its not or even close to happening so all you are doing is talking the same garbage you always do.

I'm unkillable, Just the rest of my group dies and I sit there in eternal gridlock with the mob until I get bored enough to FD.

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

The life of a brawler is a terrible thing /sigh

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Old 02-22-2012, 10:06 PM   #33
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Bruener wrote:

Damager wrote:

Bruener wrote:

Damager wrote:

I can whole heartedly say removing strikethrough Immunity from brawlers would do absolutely nothing for any other class (no it will not increase the plates survivability ROFL) and would have zero effect on any raid that uses a plate MT for progression, This is well common sence. What it will do is cripple brawlers and remove one way that a raid may or may not have succeeded against a certain type of mob and in the end the plate tank is still sitting where they have been.

Wrong.  It would allow them to utilize the mechanic the way it was meant to be.  SOE is constantly introducing content with too high of strike through that ends up being killable by Brawlers and completely unbalanced when using a Plate tank.

So what it would do is allow them to introduce more balanced content instead of take a guess throw mob out there watch Brawlers tank it no problem while Plate tanks are taking massive damage trying to do the same thing.

If strike through immunity is a non-issue than you won't miss it, right?

Incorrect. Sit back for a second and digest what you just said.

Your whole objective is to nerf brawler so they nerf the content so plates are superior /shrug 

You make an Assumption that they will change the content. If they dont you are where you are now as I stated.

Wouldnt it make more sense to just ask for the direct path and say remove strikethrough from the mobs? But NO some genious say's we nerf a class so they nerf the content ROFL. If I want a glass of water I say I want a glass of water, I dont say ban plastics so my water has to come in a glass ROFL!

Which part of ask directly for what your class needs rather than nerf another do you not understand? Of course as I stated it will cripple brawlers, and as stated it will have no effect on plates. If they nerf the content and remove strikethrough then yes that would bennifit plates, again as I stated.

Here is the difference between me and you.  I understand why they introduce a mechanic like strike through and the advantagae it has in being used as a tool to help keep Fighter avoidance in check.

You do not.

I also understand how the field of Fighters really sits in terms of balance and the large gap that has been around since DoV beta.

You do not.

I am sorry but I can not accept the I am right, you are wrong as an answer. The Devs are not gonna accept that from you either. Make a valid and descisive descision on what you want and stick with it. I am tired of people comin in here asking to nerf monk when its the content they really want changed.

Do you want Brawlers nerfed and the content to stay the same and plates to stay where they are?

Do want the content changed and plates to advance?

Do you want plates to match current content?

Do you want plates to match current content and monks nerfed so they cant tank?

very simple sir. 

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Old 02-22-2012, 10:20 PM   #34
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Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:

EDIT:

Damager wrote:

Correct me if im wrong but SK can spec 3 death prevents that is up all the time? No?

You're actually wrong here.  To my knowledge, the exploit that previously allowed three trigger BLs has been fixed.  Furthermore, they cannot recast BL while in combat, meaning the fight has to end (or they have to die) before they can recast it.  And further, the recast on the BL does not begin until the two triggers are consumed.  It's not like Tenacity where the recast begins as soon as you cast it.

Ok so that was just an exploit that SKs enjoyed for a couple years got it now they only have 2 deth prevents that are up all the time, But if the SK dies can he cast it again before he attacks during the fight same as using a mendor bot etc? i mean seriously just have a swash put his 30s of immune to everything up have him tank till SK is back ROFL!

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Old 02-23-2012, 12:55 AM   #35
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Damager wrote:

I dont understand your 1k HP? I have Pally healing millions in raid in ACT?

Direct comparison Monk healed 138k vs Pally 2.4 Million. Monk is completely dependant on healers to cope with spikes, Pally can compinsate for a smoother heal over time reducing the effects of oneshot.

If you are suggesting a Pally con NOT MT up to HM sullons without dieing you have been proven undisputably wrong by a guild that is only ranked 75th WW.

23:50 Gindan pull (yeah I know long one, had some major screw ups for heals on mob).  Took 15.4 mil damage tanking adds.  Healed 966 HPS for the encounter.

That is how much heals do.

On that fight a 10% avoidance difference is about 4k HPS worth of damage not factoring MAs and procs on hit.

(Bruiser heal parse was 713 hps, Monks was 546 hps)

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Old 02-23-2012, 02:26 AM   #36
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Bruener wrote:

Damager wrote:

I dont understand your 1k HP? I have Pally healing millions in raid in ACT?

Direct comparison Monk healed 138k vs Pally 2.4 Million. Monk is completely dependant on healers to cope with spikes, Pally can compinsate for a smoother heal over time reducing the effects of oneshot.

If you are suggesting a Pally con NOT MT up to HM sullons without dieing you have been proven undisputably wrong by a guild that is only ranked 75th WW.

23:50 Gindan pull (yeah I know long one, had some major screw ups for heals on mob).  Took 15.4 mil damage tanking adds.  Healed 966 HPS for the encounter.

That is how much heals do.

On that fight a 10% avoidance difference is about 4k HPS worth of damage not factoring MAs and procs on hit.

(Bruiser heal parse was 713 hps, Monks was 546 hps)

3:37s Hragdold pull, I know short fight

Pally healed  341,863 HP, Monk healed 52,922

Pally healed himself the equivilant of 6 full heals in 3 minutes? Monk almost 1 LOL! Whats your point again?

What is your answer on the previous question btw?

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Old 02-23-2012, 02:28 PM   #37
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Damager wrote:

Bruener wrote:

Damager wrote:

I dont understand your 1k HP? I have Pally healing millions in raid in ACT?

Direct comparison Monk healed 138k vs Pally 2.4 Million. Monk is completely dependant on healers to cope with spikes, Pally can compinsate for a smoother heal over time reducing the effects of oneshot.

If you are suggesting a Pally con NOT MT up to HM sullons without dieing you have been proven undisputably wrong by a guild that is only ranked 75th WW.

23:50 Gindan pull (yeah I know long one, had some major screw ups for heals on mob).  Took 15.4 mil damage tanking adds.  Healed 966 HPS for the encounter.

That is how much heals do.

On that fight a 10% avoidance difference is about 4k HPS worth of damage not factoring MAs and procs on hit.

(Bruiser heal parse was 713 hps, Monks was 546 hps)

3:37s Hragdold pull, I know short fight

Pally healed  341,863 HP, Monk healed 52,922

Pally healed himself the equivilant of 6 full heals in 3 minutes? Monk almost 1 LOL! Whats your point again?

What is your answer on the previous question btw?

So the Paladin healed a whole 1.5k HPS.  Most of which were probably meaningless heals that caught in just before a healer topped them off.

That 1.5k HPS doesn't even come close to making up the difference in the amount of times they are hit as well as the damage prevented by damage reduction and one shot prevention.

That is my point.  That healing does not make up the difference and is unneeded.  Every single mechanic that mobs have since DoV seem to favor avoidance tanking and one shot prevention.  If you don't get hit you can't get MA'd or Flurried or have a ward ignoring proc hit.  If you can easily block an incoming one shot AE your healers don't have to worry about it and it makes things way easier.

Not sure what you are looking for here.  Just because your Paladin can tank some content that has been nerfed down a ton and isn't even really considered progression doesn't mean that it isn't way easier on the raid in general to have a Brawler tanking the similar mobs and when you get to Progression mobs its no contest.

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Old 02-23-2012, 03:42 PM   #38
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Bruener wrote:

Damager wrote:

Bruener wrote:

Damager wrote:

I dont understand your 1k HP? I have Pally healing millions in raid in ACT?

Direct comparison Monk healed 138k vs Pally 2.4 Million. Monk is completely dependant on healers to cope with spikes, Pally can compinsate for a smoother heal over time reducing the effects of oneshot.

If you are suggesting a Pally con NOT MT up to HM sullons without dieing you have been proven undisputably wrong by a guild that is only ranked 75th WW.

23:50 Gindan pull (yeah I know long one, had some major screw ups for heals on mob).  Took 15.4 mil damage tanking adds.  Healed 966 HPS for the encounter.

That is how much heals do.

On that fight a 10% avoidance difference is about 4k HPS worth of damage not factoring MAs and procs on hit.

(Bruiser heal parse was 713 hps, Monks was 546 hps)

3:37s Hragdold pull, I know short fight

Pally healed  341,863 HP, Monk healed 52,922

Pally healed himself the equivilant of 6 full heals in 3 minutes? Monk almost 1 LOL! Whats your point again?

What is your answer on the previous question btw?

So the Paladin healed a whole 1.5k HPS.  Most of which were probably meaningless heals that caught in just before a healer topped them off.

That 1.5k HPS doesn't even come close to making up the difference in the amount of times they are hit as well as the damage prevented by damage reduction and one shot prevention.

That is my point.  That healing does not make up the difference and is unneeded.  Every single mechanic that mobs have since DoV seem to favor avoidance tanking and one shot prevention.  If you don't get hit you can't get MA'd or Flurried or have a ward ignoring proc hit.  If you can easily block an incoming one shot AE your healers don't have to worry about it and it makes things way easier.

Not sure what you are looking for here.  Just because your Paladin can tank some content that has been nerfed down a ton and isn't even really considered progression doesn't mean that it isn't way easier on the raid in general to have a Brawler tanking the similar mobs and when you get to Progression mobs its no contest.

I believe the Divine Favor that healed 47k HP (Death Prevent) and Multiple 40k HP Lay on Hands say the heals where not meaningless.

The nerfed down a ton you speak of is the lowering of mobs strikethrough in the first place.

Pally tanked everything in EM Sullons, Tallons, Vallons, all of HM Kraytocs and multiple other HM mobs with no issues. Please specifically state which mob a Pally can not MT. Obviously your progression mob they cant tank is in HM sullons?

But we did come to what you want and that is all healing removed from Pallies because it is meaningless and them turned into avoidance tanks. Well there ya go that is what you should put in the next thread as a topic not sure how you get nerf monks cause Pally sucks. rofl. 

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Old 02-23-2012, 03:56 PM   #39
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Damager wrote:

The nerfed down a ton you speak of is the lowering of mobs strikethrough in the first place.

Actually, between the time the early Sullon's mobs were first killed and the time you first killed them, the damage on the AEs was nearly cut in half.  The damage reduction on Haldane was even greater, because he was killed while there was a bug that caused the AEs to apply focus damage erroneously.  The only reason this progression was possible was because Brawlers were able to become unkillable juggernauts.  Now that the damage is so much lower, you don't really need unkillable juggernauts to tank them, so it's not surprising that your Paladin friend does OK. 

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Old 02-23-2012, 04:15 PM   #40
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Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Damager wrote:

The nerfed down a ton you speak of is the lowering of mobs strikethrough in the first place.

Actually, between the time the early Sullon's mobs were first killed and the time you first killed them, the damage on the AEs was nearly cut in half.  The damage reduction on Haldane was even greater, because he was killed while there was a bug that caused the AEs to apply focus damage erroneously.  The only reason this progression was possible was because Brawlers were able to become unkillable juggernauts.  Now that the damage is so much lower, you don't really need unkillable juggernauts to tank them, so it's not surprising that your Paladin friend does OK. 

HUH? You mention all AE stuff and brawlers needed? Monks avoid physical, 1 ward protects against any dameage and it is a 45s recast and Monk must be hit for over 35% of his HP. Technically your description would make Guard (Wards) the preffered tank sir.

What does that even have to do with strikethrough? Heh so your saying the unkillable juggernaut who uses his massive strikethrough immunity to avoid AEs and would rez the whole raid so everyone could play is what saved the day? REALLY?  

You also Just stated Pallies are just fine now so whats this thread about again?

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Old 02-23-2012, 04:38 PM   #41
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Damager wrote:

1 ward protects against any dameage and it is a 45s recast and Monk must be hit for over 35% of his HP

You have much to learn before you can become an unkillable juggernaut.  Remember, you must have high reuse! If your Superior Guard is taking 45 seconds to refresh, your reuse is not high enough.  Meditate on this, young monk, and return once your reuse is high enough.

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Old 02-23-2012, 04:50 PM   #42
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protection value on shields needs to increase

Intercept needs to be a damage and hate intercept.

Pallies need a reliable stoneskin and snap agros  be able to move and cast aes (all of them) 

sk's need more snap agros and a straight damage reduction maybe a stoneskin move and cast aes(all of them)  need 1 ae with a large range.  Some form of hate siphon to deal with large damage spikes.  Since sk's arent allowed to dps.

I might strangle the person that links a 500k sk parse with 400k of it from other classes.  Just fyi.

zerkers.. taken out and shot ( i have no clue)

Guards .. seem fine..

brawlers seem fine

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Old 02-23-2012, 04:54 PM   #43
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Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Damager wrote:

1 ward protects against any dameage and it is a 45s recast and Monk must be hit for over 35% of his HP

You have much to learn before you can become an unkillable juggernaut.  Remember, you must have high reuse! If your Superior Guard is taking 45 seconds to refresh, your reuse is not high enough.  Meditate on this, young monk, and return once your reuse is high enough.

33% reuse = 45.1s 

83% reuse =32.8s

So the monk can stay in on predictable red text everyone dies except him and he rezes with his godliness?

ROFL you do realize the mobs that cast HUGE red text aoe, root themselves and you can just joust right? Or you could just let the tank die and one of the other 2 pick it up while he is rezd like you do on Kraytoc HM (unless your dps is so rediculouse u bypass that)

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Old 02-23-2012, 05:09 PM   #44
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Damager wrote:

So the monk can stay in on predictable red text everyone dies except him and he rezes with his godliness?

ROFL you do realize the mobs that cast HUGE red text aoe, root themselves and you can just joust right?

Many AEs without red text are predictable.

Many AEs without red text are HUGE.

I can show you the path to becoming an unkillable juggernaut, but I can not walk it for you, young monk.

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Old 02-23-2012, 05:11 PM   #45
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Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Damager wrote:

So the monk can stay in on predictable red text everyone dies except him and he rezes with his godliness?

ROFL you do realize the mobs that cast HUGE red text aoe, root themselves and you can just joust right?

Many AEs without red text are predictable.

Many AEs without red text are HUGE.

I can show you the path to becoming an unkillable juggernaut, but I can not walk it for you, young monk.

Sweet how do I survive HM Kraytocs death touch ROFL (superior Guard = Dead Monk, 3 Death prevents + healers Death prevent = Dead Monk, Cast every thing you have in one fell swoop= Dead Monk)

Any who, red text no red text doesnt matter must be predictable, Best you will get is 32s reuse. And anything predictable you can easily joust or mitigate. 

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Old 02-23-2012, 05:26 PM   #46
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Damager wrote:

Sweet how do I survive HM Kraytocs death touch ROFL

Grasp the power, then redirect it.  That is all I can tell you.

Seek out Master Corydonn if you need further assistance answering your question.

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Old 02-23-2012, 05:32 PM   #47
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Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Damager wrote:

Sweet how do I survive HM Kraytocs death touch ROFL

Grasp the power, then redirect it.  That is all I can tell you.

Seek out Master Corydonn if you need further assistance answering your question.

Easily done for a guard or a pally as well Kind sir, But how does the monk alone become unkillable on said encounter?

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Old 02-23-2012, 06:00 PM   #48
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Damager wrote:

how does the monk alone become unkillable on said encounter?

As I told Novice Blanka, there are indeed some situations where unkillable juggernauts can die.  Perhaps you have found one here?  One can also fly a griffon to a great height and then jump off.  It is enjoyable to think of ways that an unkillable juggernaut may be able to die because there so few, but in order to continue on your path to becoming one yourself, you must focus your mind on more productive things, young monk.

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Old 02-23-2012, 06:07 PM   #49
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Damager wrote:

Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Damager wrote:

Sweet how do I survive HM Kraytocs death touch ROFL

Grasp the power, then redirect it.  That is all I can tell you.

Seek out Master Corydonn if you need further assistance answering your question.

Easily done for a guard or a pally as well Kind sir, But how does the monk alone become unkillable on said encounter?

Go talk to Darkonx on Crushbone.  He uses a Monk and a SK.  He will tell you how huge the difference is.  His words to me last time I talked to him was something like "I don't understand how people even die playing a Monk."

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Old 02-23-2012, 06:31 PM   #50
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Bruener wrote:

Damager wrote:

Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Damager wrote:

Sweet how do I survive HM Kraytocs death touch ROFL

Grasp the power, then redirect it.  That is all I can tell you.

Seek out Master Corydonn if you need further assistance answering your question.

Easily done for a guard or a pally as well Kind sir, But how does the monk alone become unkillable on said encounter?

Go talk to Darkonx on Crushbone.  He uses a Monk and a SK.  He will tell you how huge the difference is.  His words to me last time I talked to him was something like "I don't understand how people even die playing a Monk."

The young Monk lead the profit to what the monk wanted him to say. The words of the profit are "Pallies are ok now" and of course that the MOnk can not survive on his own on that encounter and is not an unkillable juggernaut as first stated and what saves him is of course usuable on Guards and Pallies just as easily.

OMG a monk and an SK thats beast mode, WOOT! j/k

But really what is it your looking for, you refuse to answer the simplest of questions? Your all over the board from the content needs to change, to nerf brawlers, to Guards are comparible to brawlers, to Pallies need their heals removed and turned into avoidance tanks?

Now Rageincarnate is a well played SK, steps into the picture and states he feels Guards and Brawlers are fine, I agree with this. He states what his class and others would need to be on par, that is productive.

Why would I talk to Darkonx? Have him walk in EoW and solo it, thats how a monk dies there I answered his question also.

One more cup of coffee i should be able to solve world hunger at this rate.

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Old 02-23-2012, 07:31 PM   #51
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Rageincarnate@Unrest wrote:

protection value on shields needs to increase

Intercept needs to be a damage and hate intercept.

Pallies need a reliable stoneskin and snap agros  be able to move and cast aes (all of them) 

sk's need more snap agros and a straight damage reduction maybe a stoneskin move and cast aes(all of them)  need 1 ae with a large range.  Some form of hate siphon to deal with large damage spikes.  Since sk's arent allowed to dps.

I might strangle the person that links a 500k sk parse with 400k of it from other classes.  Just fyi.

zerkers.. taken out and shot ( i have no clue)

Guards .. seem fine..

brawlers seem fine

"protection value on shields" - i think that is mobs didnt have ANY strikethrough then the avoidance difference was be within 10%.  that means that the Dev's must want there to be this difference.   (this is me HOPING that the Dev's have this plan out lol)

Hate on Intercept - Very interesting idea, since it has a 1 min 40 sec duration and a +/- 20 sec recast this would need a lot of looking into.

Pally's - ya i can agree that they need a Stoneskin and a ST snap.  i am thinking Holy Aid is a good candidate for looking at?  

SK's i am not sure i have seen them played very well and have no agro problems and have a lot more AoE agro then anything i can think of bringing.  as for a stoneskin... not sure they are the "Offensive Crusader"  

there is one comment that i have heard somewhere around hear that i am liking more and more but for all classes.  give all classes a healing pool that extras healing generated from them would go into it and have a 3-10 sec duration in the pool? the pool would to be not more than the players health and healers would need a pool for each person they are healing... thinking it may get complicated to track after all, but it's an interesting idea that would help the crusaders a lot in so many ways. 

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Old 02-23-2012, 07:45 PM   #52
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Damager wrote:

Bruener wrote:

Damager wrote:

Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Damager wrote:

Sweet how do I survive HM Kraytocs death touch ROFL

Grasp the power, then redirect it.  That is all I can tell you.

Seek out Master Corydonn if you need further assistance answering your question.

Easily done for a guard or a pally as well Kind sir, But how does the monk alone become unkillable on said encounter?

Go talk to Darkonx on Crushbone.  He uses a Monk and a SK.  He will tell you how huge the difference is.  His words to me last time I talked to him was something like "I don't understand how people even die playing a Monk."

The young Monk lead the profit to what the monk wanted him to say. The words of the profit are "Pallies are ok now" and of course that the MOnk can not survive on his own on that encounter and is not an unkillable juggernaut as first stated and what saves him is of course usuable on Guards and Pallies just as easily.

OMG a monk and an SK thats beast mode, WOOT! j/k

But really what is it your looking for, you refuse to answer the simplest of questions? Your all over the board from the content needs to change, to nerf brawlers, to Guards are comparible to brawlers, to Pallies need their heals removed and turned into avoidance tanks?

Now Rageincarnate is a well played SK, steps into the picture and states he feels Guards and Brawlers are fine, I agree with this. He states what his class and others would need to be on par, that is productive.

Why would I talk to Darkonx? Have him walk in EoW and solo it, thats how a monk dies there I answered his question also.

One more cup of coffee i should be able to solve world hunger at this rate.

Its simple really.

Remove strike through immunity because it just messes up the mechanic and makes it hard to balance around.  It doesn't allow it to work as its intended.

For Crusaders make healing actually viable and not completely useless.  As Sizlin said above, which I believe was Atan's idea originally, maybe some type of ward pool that extra heals can go into that would allow them to actually make a difference.

For SKs make Bloodletter castable In-combat and some better over time snap capability like making Furor proc 1 hate position.

For Paladins adding an additional one-shot prevention on a decent reuse.  Some snap agro help.

For Zerkers, honestly idk because I have heard both sides on how useful they are.  Personally I would rework their reactive heal type abilities because honestly it never fit with the class and push it into something like DR.

You do these things and than look at Fighters again and see if more tweaks need to happen.  Yes, Brawlers will "feel" like they get nerfed because they currently monopolize an immunity to a mechanic that is there to specifically lower uncontested avoidance and keep it in check while also being the ones with significantly higher avoidance.  Not sure how Brawlers can honestly justify having immunity to it right now since the gap in physical damage taken vs hp pool size has shrunk up significantly.  I like to use an example of lets say SOE created a new mechanic that ignored mitigation or something similar like damage reduction, than they gave 2 tanks immunity to it while the other ones all had to deal with it.

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Old 02-23-2012, 10:33 PM   #53
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These whine threads are so stupid especialy ones started by Talthion.

Brawlers who were arround before strikethrough immunity know why it was given to them.  Brawlers were designed to be the avoidance tanks but plate tanks had more avoidance than brawlers. It was completely broken ballance wise. Putting in strikethrough immunity fixed the issue and restored the respectability of the brawler class. Brawlers were always supposed to be the "kings of defense." Just because the plate tanks had more avoidance than brawlers a few expansions back does not mean they are entitled to that privledge forever. When one class can do one thing and another class can do another that is called ballance. Plate tanks can tank pretty much every mob in the game regardless.  Class ballance is the best it has ever been as no tank currently has a monopoly.

You know what most plate tanks are fine with the way things are. It is just the same few loud whiners who keep posting about the same nonsence.

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Old 02-23-2012, 10:40 PM   #54
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Novusod wrote:

These whine threads are so stupid especialy ones started by Talthion.

Brawlers who were arround before strikethrough immunity know why it was given to them.  Brawlers were designed to be the avoidance tanks but plate tanks had more avoidance than brawlers. It was completely broken ballance wise. Putting in strikethrough immunity fixed the issue and restored the respectability of the brawler class. Brawlers were always supposed to be the "kings of defense." Just because the plate tanks had more avoidance than brawlers a few expansions back does not mean they are entitled to that privledge forever. When one class can do one thing and another class can do another that is called ballance. Plate tanks can tank pretty much every mob in the game regardless.  Class ballance is the best it has ever been as no tank currently has a monopoly.

You know what most plate tanks are fine with the way things are. It is just the same few loud whiners who keep posting about the same nonsence.

Lol, what a load this read was.  Gave me a good chuckle.....king of defense and all that.  Class balance being good.  Most plate tanks being fine.

Oh wait...you are also the one that posted that its not balanced, but because of F2P its the way it had to be.

You have discredited yourself to post.  Move along.

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Old 02-23-2012, 10:56 PM   #55
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Bruener wrote:

Novusod wrote:

These whine threads are so stupid especialy ones started by Talthion.

Brawlers who were arround before strikethrough immunity know why it was given to them.  Brawlers were designed to be the avoidance tanks but plate tanks had more avoidance than brawlers. It was completely broken ballance wise. Putting in strikethrough immunity fixed the issue and restored the respectability of the brawler class. Brawlers were always supposed to be the "kings of defense." Just because the plate tanks had more avoidance than brawlers a few expansions back does not mean they are entitled to that privledge forever. When one class can do one thing and another class can do another that is called ballance. Plate tanks can tank pretty much every mob in the game regardless.  Class ballance is the best it has ever been as no tank currently has a monopoly.

You know what most plate tanks are fine with the way things are. It is just the same few loud whiners who keep posting about the same nonsence.

Lol, what a load this read was.  Gave me a good chuckle.....king of defense and all that.  Class balance being good.  Most plate tanks being fine.

Oh wait...you are also the one that posted that its not balanced, but because of F2P its the way it had to be.

You have discredited yourself to post.  Move along.

Indeed F2P is part of class ballance now. What I said about F2P doesn't change the truth of anything I said above. Class ballance is all working as intended.

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Old 02-23-2012, 11:59 PM   #56
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I for one disagree that brawlers were always suppose to be the "kings of defense". If that was true then brawlers would have had more defensive abilities than what they were given to fulfill that statement. Of the two brawlers the monk had better defensive abilities than the bruiser ever had of that era. Bruisers from level 1-79 didn't have any great damage absorbtion/prevention/100% avoidance defensive abilities that made any other fighter jealous.

One of the reasons the fighters are in the mess they are today is because the original vision for the fighters was lost when Moorguard left and the others filled in.

Now I will agree that just a few years back plate tanks had far better mit and their avoidance was on par with what the brawlers had and plates were the fighters that others wanted for the tanking position.

Everyone wants their fighter to be king of the hill and others below them. I think that is why we have the heated debates all the time. 

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Old 02-24-2012, 01:40 AM   #57
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Aull wrote:

I for one disagree that brawlers were always suppose to be the "kings of defense". If that was true then brawlers would have had more defensive abilities than what they were given to fulfill that statement. Of the two brawlers the monk had better defensive abilities than the bruiser ever had of that era. Bruisers from level 1-79 didn't have any great damage absorbtion/prevention/100% avoidance defensive abilities that made any other fighter jealous.

One of the reasons the fighters are in the mess they are today is because the original vision for the fighters was lost when Moorguard left and the others filled in.

Now I will agree that just a few years back plate tanks had far better mit and their avoidance was on par with what the brawlers had and plates were the fighters that others wanted for the tanking position.

Everyone wants their fighter to be king of the hill and others below them. I think that is why we have the heated debates all the time. 

The original promise of the fighter archtype was that all the fighters would be able to do the same tasks but they would accomplish them through different means. Brawlers were supposed to be the defensive avoidance kings. Warriors are stoneskin mitigators and crusaders have life taps and heals. Problem was the game was so poorly ballanced in the early days it took a long time to ballance those mechanics. But the way the game is now is the way it is supposed to be.

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Old 02-24-2012, 04:15 AM   #58
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When Brawlers were given strikethrough immunity, they had alot less mitigation and damage reduction and only a 2 trigger death save with a longer reuse  then they do now.

Now that they have High Mitigation and VERY High damage reduction (almost prenerf Adrenaline Levels.), 1.5x the Avoidance, and Strikethrough Immunity, and more Death Prevents, as well as the fact they do not sacrifice any damage to gain these incredable defences, they are literally best of both offense and defense.

Its now stupid, and silly.

The only thing I can say is, make brawler's tenacity have a 50% chance to trigger or remove strikethrough immunity.

Giving there 3 Trigger death prevent a 50% chance of working would work better with how they used to be, avoidance that relied more on luck and chance of avoiding death by dodging it, kind of like how feign death used to work as well.

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Old 02-24-2012, 11:09 AM   #59
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Novusod wrote:

Aull wrote:

I for one disagree that brawlers were always suppose to be the "kings of defense". If that was true then brawlers would have had more defensive abilities than what they were given to fulfill that statement. Of the two brawlers the monk had better defensive abilities than the bruiser ever had of that era. Bruisers from level 1-79 didn't have any great damage absorbtion/prevention/100% avoidance defensive abilities that made any other fighter jealous.

One of the reasons the fighters are in the mess they are today is because the original vision for the fighters was lost when Moorguard left and the others filled in.

Now I will agree that just a few years back plate tanks had far better mit and their avoidance was on par with what the brawlers had and plates were the fighters that others wanted for the tanking position.

Everyone wants their fighter to be king of the hill and others below them. I think that is why we have the heated debates all the time. 

The original promise of the fighter archtype was that all the fighters would be able to do the same tasks but they would accomplish them through different means. Brawlers were supposed to be the defensive avoidance kings. Warriors are stoneskin mitigators and crusaders have life taps and heals. Problem was the game was so poorly ballanced in the early days it took a long time to ballance those mechanics. But the way the game is now is the way it is supposed to be.

Waited to post this until today, hoping that you put down the crack pipe last night.

Nobody is arguing that Brawlers should be the avoidance kings.  Its the levels of mitigation they have now, the damage reduction that they have now, the superior death save that they have now, and the stoneskins that they have now that in combination with that avoidance is too much.  Maybe we should talk about stripping those down since they are superior to other Fighters in those regards and your words those are supposed to be the realms of others.

If warriors are supposed to be the stoneskin damage mitigators why are the Brawlers owning this area?

If Crusaders are supposed to rely on Lifetaps and Heals why are they absolute garbage in end game play?  I mean I don't get to push out 4-5k HPS consistently to make up for the avoidance advantage Brawlers get to have (not to mention all the other abilities listed above).  Realistically all those lifetaps would have to be changed into some type of ward form to cover the difference.

Oh thats right.  You think it is alright because of F2P.  In other words you know that it is not even close to balanced at all, but because of how F2P works and which classes are available when YOU think that this is how it has to be.  Such a hypocrit.

EDIT: Just so that there isn't any confusion just because Brawlers are avoidance kings strike through immunity still needs to go.  The need for it isn't there any more because of all the other luxuries Brawlers have been given since and it completely unbalances what the strike through mechanic was designed to do.  SOE should have that mechanic to help limit ALL Fighter avoidance the % they need to instead of all but the 2 highest avoidance tanks that already would be getting hit way less.

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Old 02-24-2012, 11:14 AM   #60
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Darkonx wrote: Brawlers are still incredibly god-like OP in comparison to every other tank. To a degree that it's mind-boggling how the entire SOE dev-team doesn't make it their #1 priority on a daily basis to fix. I've tanked everything on both, and believe me, BRAWLERS ARE BROKEN.

Quote from the other thread from somebody that actually plays a Plate tank and a Brawler in high end raiding.

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