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Old 06-14-2008, 05:21 PM   #31
Rashaak

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Rothgar wrote:

For quite some time, people have wondered how EQII determines which guilds to list in the recruitment window.  In light of Amnerys' recent article on using this window, I'll try to clear that up as much as possible.  The original intent of the recruitment window was to help new players find a guild.  So the server users several metrics to try to match a player up to a potential guild.First off, only guilds with online recruiters are shown in the list, and up to a maximum of 40 guilds will be shown.   When determining if a guild should be shown and how high it appears in the list, each guild is weighted on several factors.   Each member of the guild that has been online recently weights the guild higher.  The more recent that member has been online, the higher the weighting.  Players that are currently online weight the results the most.    Also, for each guild member close to your level range, the guild is weighted even higher.When all is said and done, larger guilds with a more active roster will appear higher in the list.  However, the biggest factor that might affect your guild's listing is whether or not you have a recruiter currently online.  So if you think this could be part of the reason your guild isn't showing up, talk to your guild leadership about adding more recruiters.

This right here is the biggest issue with the GRT. LARGER GUILDS WITH A MORE ACTIVE ROSTER...this generally means this is the raid type guild. It basically means the large guild gets larger, while the small guilds get shafted hard! SMILEYHappy Guild Hunting!

So questions for you...

Why does the GRT only show 40 guilds 'online' at that time?

Why does the GRT do the searching for you?

Almost everything else has search functions in the game for players looking for what they really need/want. Just like the LFG tool, Broker, and even the TS menu has lots a variables to search for.

The GRT wasn't done right and needs a major overhaul. Otherwise it's just a useless tool except for the high-end guilds that already level 50+! You won't see many guilds on that GRT below level 30 at all! It leaves the small guild in the dark which makes a lot of them die out because they are not able to be seen when someone is looking for a guild. Or have to use ooc channels to try and recruit...

The way the GRT should be set up is to allow for both guilds and players to search for each other. On the player side, the player should be able to select what it is he is looking for. Small guild, rp oriented, casual, raiding, large guild...etc. They need to have that ability to search, not let the game do the searching for the player. With the way the GRT search's it's basically telling the player these are the only guilds for you, when there may be so many smaller guilds looking to increase their player base so they can show more activity that are probably just as good if not better than some large guilds out there!

For the guild side...the guild recruiters should be able to use a 'lfg' (looking for guild) feature similiar to the LFG tool. Players searching for guilds can put their info up...and recruiters can search as needed. Right now as it stands....most small guilds have to go outside the game to other resources such as the EQ2players Server forums just to try and recruit.

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Old 06-16-2008, 12:41 AM   #32
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I know this weekend my guild was actively and heavily recruiting. We had 2-3 recruiters on all weekend and I did not see our guild on the list at all once. I didn't count the guilds on the list sadly.I really would like to see some more option for guild leaders to have access to. Let us specify level ranges, let us specify certain tradeskill classes and levels, and please take away the 40 listing cap. Let the level 1 guild with 6 members show on the list. What is the harm? Give the players a way to search. As it was said, we can search on everything else. Take this b#st#rd child tool and make it useful.
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Old 06-16-2008, 01:32 PM   #33
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Heh.

In over a year of my guild's existence, we still struggle to recruit new players. We've never, ever once shown up on the GRT and all of my characters and practically everyone who has been with us for longer than a month has the guild recruiter ability and is set to do so. :-/

So, the result is we can either seek new members in the level channels, post on the forums, or we can try to find new guildmembers as we run around Norrath. With the wildly diverse plentitude of guilds on LDL, it makes it difficult to find folks. I've seen a variety of really great ideas here in this thread on how to fix the GRT.

Just my 2c worth.

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Old 06-16-2008, 03:22 PM   #34
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Thanks for the explanation.

I have one suggestion for future development.  Give the player a query ability based on those icons that show up with each guild (currently recruiting fighters, currently recruiting craftsmen, hardcore, RP, etc.) 

My 38 monk is currently looking for a guild on Lucan D'Lere.  I want an RP guild and won't consider a guild which isn't RP.  It would be great if I could specify that.  Perhaps it would allow smaller RP guilds who don't show up on the tool to show up in such a query too.  In my case a list of 40 RP guilds would be a gold mine of information for my guild hunting.  Chances are others who are looking for guild have a rough idea of some things they're looking for (hardcore, raids alot, family friendly, whatever).  Such a query tool would be handy for them too.

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Old 06-17-2008, 12:41 AM   #35
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It certainly sounds like a problem if the guild recruiting window isn't showing all 40 guilds.  I will check into that.As far as all the suggestions for the tool, definitely good ideas.   We don't normally talk about changes too far in advance, so supposing I did put some work into the recruiting tool even before making this post about how it works, I probably would not tell anyone that I was doing this.  SMILEY
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Old 06-17-2008, 02:52 AM   #36
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Thank you for checking into that, Rothgar.  It's much appreciated.
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Old 06-17-2008, 02:57 AM   #37
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Ok, my returning feebackAmazingly over the weekend Unsung Heroes managed to stay in the recruiting list (typical as I was trying to prove a point grrr).BUT ... today, which was Tues 9am in the land of Aus, we were no longer listed. There was a total of 23 other guilds listed which I think is interesting as Melora also mentioned his/her window cut off at 23 on page 2 of this thread.Also, I 100% agree that the guild recruiting tool should NOT do it's own little seach unless instructed to do so from variables the user has set. I was kind of hoping that something would come out with guild halls that would affect the guild recruiting ability, so to see this thread and all it's interest is great SMILEY
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Old 06-17-2008, 06:23 AM   #38
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Rijacki wrote:
At what ever time I have been on with that same character, I have seen roughly the same guilds.  I am actually seeking a guild with that character (AB, evil only, RP but no scripted RP or cyber, allowing casuals since I also play on other servers and have characters guilded on the good side on AB) and keep hoping to see some other guild listed there to peruse (I loathe guildportal and that seems to be the only option open to look for guilds on AB).
You're right.When I came to AB, I looked at the guild recruiting window a lot. I was looking for a RP guild, but I also noticed that it was always the same guilds that would show on that list. Of RP guilds, only the relatively large ones seemed to appear on the list regularly. The smaller ones just don't make it in there, sadly.
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:05 PM   #39
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Rothgar,   There is a bug I've seen with the Guild Recruiting Tool, and I don't know how to explain it other than this.  Say we have 3 recruiters on, and they are Bob, Joe and TomNow is someone goes to our guild and clicks on BobYou'd expect it to be the following:Bob sees : Someone would like to speak to YOU (paraphrasing don't remember the exact wording) Joe sees : Someone would like to speak to Bob Tom sees : Someone would like to speak to Bob In Actuality what we see is:Bob sees : Someone would like to speak to YOU Joe sees : Someone would like to speak to Joe Tom sees : Someone would like to speak to TomBeing a computer engineer, and having seen bugs in my own coding very similar to this, it looks like it's a simple case of the "Someone would like to speak to %n"  %n should be the person they pressed, instead it's the character's own name.  I'd hope it's an easy fix, and it's really obscure unless you understand the coding behind it.
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:55 PM   #40
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I would recommend leaving it alone and having a fancy search on the website.  Uruishol
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Old 06-17-2008, 01:26 PM   #41
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sirmamabear wrote:
I would recommend leaving it alone and having a fancy search on the website.  Uruishol
this would never work, unless they fix eq2players.comeq2players.com never workd and probably never willnow if eq2players updated its data correctly and faster than it does now (and was free) it would be the best and easiest way to search for a guild, having in-game browsers and all
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Old 06-17-2008, 01:28 PM   #42
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Rothgar wrote:
It certainly sounds like a problem if the guild recruiting window isn't showing all 40 guilds.  I will check into that.
i dont think i've ever seen 40 guilds on the GRT, i havent counted them in a while but im going to guess its around 20 guilds atm
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Old 06-17-2008, 10:13 PM   #43
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Pusska@Permafrost wrote:
Ok, my returning feebackAmazingly over the weekend Unsung Heroes managed to stay in the recruiting list (typical as I was trying to prove a point grrr).BUT ... today, which was Tues 9am in the land of Aus, we were no longer listed. There was a total of 23 other guilds listed which I think is interesting as Melora also mentioned his/her window cut off at 23 on page 2 of this thread.Also, I 100% agree that the guild recruiting tool should NOT do it's own little seach unless instructed to do so from variables the user has set. I was kind of hoping that something would come out with guild halls that would affect the guild recruiting ability, so to see this thread and all it's interest is great SMILEY<img src=" />
It looks like that current implementation of the Guild Recruiting Window on live servers requires that the recruiter not only be online, but NOT be AFK in order for the guild to show up.  (Yes, a little strict, I know)  So when checking to see if you show up in the list, make sure you have a recruiter online and not AFK.  Let me know if you still don't show up in the list and the list is not capped at 40 entries.
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Old 06-17-2008, 10:18 PM   #44
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While I haven't had much time to experience this system, the times that I was looking for a guild it really helped! I think this is a wonderful feature SMILEY

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Old 06-17-2008, 10:32 PM   #45
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Rothgar wrote:
Pusska@Permafrost wrote:
Ok, my returning feebackAmazingly over the weekend Unsung Heroes managed to stay in the recruiting list (typical as I was trying to prove a point grrr).BUT ... today, which was Tues 9am in the land of Aus, we were no longer listed. There was a total of 23 other guilds listed which I think is interesting as Melora also mentioned his/her window cut off at 23 on page 2 of this thread.Also, I 100% agree that the guild recruiting tool should NOT do it's own little seach unless instructed to do so from variables the user has set. I was kind of hoping that something would come out with guild halls that would affect the guild recruiting ability, so to see this thread and all it's interest is great SMILEY<img src=">
It looks like that current implementation of the Guild Recruiting Window on live servers requires that the recruiter not only be online, but NOT be AFK in order for the guild to show up.  (Yes, a little strict, I know)  So when checking to see if you show up in the list, make sure you have a recruiter online and not AFK.  Let me know if you still don't show up in the list and the list is not capped at 40 entries.
2 recruiters online.  Both have the Recruiting For Guild box checked off.  Neither are AFK.  25 guilds listed in the window.  Ours still isn't showing up.
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Old 06-18-2008, 12:06 AM   #46
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Yes I discovered that afk recruiters removes us from the list entirely during these experiments. But just to reiterate ... The guild list was capped at 23 and we were not listed (when we normally are, so I know the settings are correct) and I was most certainly not afk - I double checked at the time SMILEY
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Old 06-18-2008, 02:10 AM   #47
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Rothgar wrote:
Pusska@Permafrost wrote:
Ok, my returning feebackAmazingly over the weekend Unsung Heroes managed to stay in the recruiting list (typical as I was trying to prove a point grrr).BUT ... today, which was Tues 9am in the land of Aus, we were no longer listed. There was a total of 23 other guilds listed which I think is interesting as Melora also mentioned his/her window cut off at 23 on page 2 of this thread.Also, I 100% agree that the guild recruiting tool should NOT do it's own little seach unless instructed to do so from variables the user has set. I was kind of hoping that something would come out with guild halls that would affect the guild recruiting ability, so to see this thread and all it's interest is great SMILEY<img src=">
It looks like that current implementation of the Guild Recruiting Window on live servers requires that the recruiter not only be online, but NOT be AFK in order for the guild to show up.  (Yes, a little strict, I know)  So when checking to see if you show up in the list, make sure you have a recruiter online and not AFK.  Let me know if you still don't show up in the list and the list is not capped at 40 entries.

By strict you mean what?

See the two top guilds on this list?  Yah....not recruiting...but because their recruiters are on line and they have a lot of members...they take up two spots that could go to guilds that are well....a bit more diserving...

Rothgar....I seriously think you need to take a larger look at this rather than telling us 'this is why this happens' approach. I don't want any more stupid work arounds. Make this thing work the way it should of 3 years ago or just get rid of it...

If it doesn't help ALL players and ALL guilds on EVERY server...then it is not a useful tool in the slightest...

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Old 06-18-2008, 05:04 AM   #48
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Rashaak wrote:
Rothgar....I seriously think you need to take a larger look at this rather than telling us 'this is why this happens' approach.
Why do you assume that just because I explain how its working now that we aren't or won't make changes to it in the near future?  I think quite a few people like having the inner-workings of something explained, especially when its something as cryptic as the recruiting window.  This doesn't mean we won't work to improve it.  If you've been around the game awhile you should know that we generally don't talk about what we're releasing too far in advance due to the possibility of last-minute changes.  But sometimes if you read the dev posts closely and read between the lines you might pick up some hints here and there.Ives, you said "Both have the Recruiting For Guild box checked off."  If you want to show up in the recruiting window they will need to have their recruiting for guild check box "checked on".
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Old 06-18-2008, 05:42 AM   #49
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Right, poorly worded due to posting on the fly.  I did mean they were ON.  Little checkmark in the box.
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Old 06-18-2008, 11:12 AM   #50
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Rashaak wrote:
By strict you mean what?

That pic is not the fault of the guild recruitment tool, but rather of the guilds that are in it while recruitment is closed.

If it doesn't help ALL players and ALL guilds on EVERY server...then it is not a useful tool in the slightest...

This is the most extreme definition of usefulness in terms of an in game addition I have ever seen.

Name me one single part of the game that is as large as the guild recruitment tool, and that is useful to every single player.

if it helps one single player, on one server, then it is useful. Maybe not to you, but it is to that player.

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Old 06-18-2008, 03:25 PM   #51
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Rothgar - just wanted to post that I wasn't AFK the other day when I checked to see if we were listed (posted as Mordraeth then).

Thanks for looking into this, hopefully you're able to track down the issue.

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Old 06-19-2008, 01:56 AM   #52
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Noaani wrote:
Rashaak wrote:
By strict you mean what?

That pic is not the fault of the guild recruitment tool, but rather of the guilds that are in it while recruitment is closed.

yes...yes... blame the guild and its recruiters SMILEY  thats the easy way to do it...

but lets just say that both the guild and the way the GRT was initially set up are at fault

If it doesn't help ALL players and ALL guilds on EVERY server...then it is not a useful tool in the slightest...

This is the most extreme definition of usefulness in terms of an in game addition I have ever seen.

Name me one single part of the game that is as large as the guild recruitment tool, and that is useful to every single player.

if it helps one single player, on one server, then it is useful. Maybe not to you, but it is to that player.

hrm...a couple useful tools you say? Lets start with the Broker window...and why not the LFG tool as well...

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Old 06-19-2008, 01:57 AM   #53
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Rothgar wrote:
Rashaak wrote:
Rothgar....I seriously think you need to take a larger look at this rather than telling us 'this is why this happens' approach.
Why do you assume that just because I explain how its working now that we aren't or won't make changes to it in the near future?  I think quite a few people like having the inner-workings of something explained, especially when its something as cryptic as the recruiting window.  This doesn't mean we won't work to improve it.  If you've been around the game awhile you should know that we generally don't talk about what we're releasing too far in advance due to the possibility of last-minute changes.  But sometimes if you read the dev posts closely and read between the lines you might pick up some hints here and there.

Don't get defensive...I just think rather than give explanations for current issues, why not tell us how your going to remedy it. What plans do you have. No need to be criptic about something like this...

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Old 06-21-2008, 01:38 AM   #54
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Just a 'report' from a small guild in case its useful.

Blackburrow server. Small guild, level 24. 2 recruiters online, noone afk. 14 guilds showing in the guild window. No sign of us in there.

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Old 06-23-2008, 12:18 PM   #55
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shaunfletcher wrote:

Just a 'report' from a small guild in case its useful.

Blackburrow server. Small guild, level 24. 2 recruiters online, noone afk. 14 guilds showing in the guild window. No sign of us in there.

Shaun

Who were you doing the search with. As I understand it, it shows the best guilds that are recruiting for the level range you are at. So if you log in your level 20 char, you should not see the level 80 mostly guilds, but instead guilds with an average level around what you have logged in.

Some people seem to forget this point, and when their guilds have alot of players of various levels bringing down the average level of the guild to say, 30, then when a level 80 logs in from that same guild and does a search to see where they stand in the recruitment windows, they don't see their guild, but instead all the level 80 raiding guilds that are just exhibiting their guild...

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Old 06-23-2008, 12:34 PM   #56
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Freliant wrote:
shaunfletcher wrote:

Just a 'report' from a small guild in case its useful.

Blackburrow server. Small guild, level 24. 2 recruiters online, noone afk. 14 guilds showing in the guild window. No sign of us in there.

Shaun

Who were you doing the search with. As I understand it, it shows the best guilds that are recruiting for the level range you are at. So if you log in your level 20 char, you should not see the level 80 mostly guilds, but instead guilds with an average level around what you have logged in.

Some people seem to forget this point, and when their guilds have alot of players of various levels bringing down the average level of the guild to say, 30, then when a level 80 logs in from that same guild and does a search to see where they stand in the recruitment windows, they don't see their guild, but instead all the level 80 raiding guilds that are just exhibiting their guild...

When I've done my checks, it is with a character of some middle level that is unguilded (I actually do have unguilded alts, one of them I had been actively looking for a guild home for her). But you don't need to be unguilded to see the listings, you can go to the recruitment management page of the guild UI and click on the -small- shield icon in the bottom corner.A level 35ish will see the -same- guilds displayed (and in the same order) as a level 80.  The level weighting does not work. The "caps at 40" does not work.
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Old 06-23-2008, 01:18 PM   #57
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While I personally think the guild tool is fine "as is", I can udnerstand the frustration of the smaller guilds. When we started out, the largest guild on AB had like 300 members, it was easier to grow. Now, there is fiercer competition for new members and large guilds (my own obviosuly included) do have the advantage.

 So whats the solution? Simple - add some filters to the search window. Let the player look for the type he is looking for. "Filter Guilds with between 1-10 members " or "guilds with 500+ members" . Have it default to the current system still rewards the most active guilds - it SHOULD. But have those who want to see the smaller guilds be able to. Alternatively - simply list every guild with a recruiter online.

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Old 06-23-2008, 04:44 PM   #58
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Rashaak wrote:

By strict you mean what?

See the two top guilds on this list?  Yah....not recruiting...but because their recruiters are on line and they have a lot of members...they take up two spots that could go to guilds that are well....a bit more diserving...

Rothgar....I seriously think you need to take a larger look at this rather than telling us 'this is why this happens' approach. I don't want any more stupid work arounds. Make this thing work the way it should of 3 years ago or just get rid of it...

If it doesn't help ALL players and ALL guilds on EVERY server...then it is not a useful tool in the slightest...

I noticed this as well while on my alt that leads a small guild. Same listing, 25 guilds listed, mine wasn't one of them. Top two closed to recruiting, yet showing up.
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Old 06-23-2008, 07:21 PM   #59
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I've been checking the recuiting list during play time for the past week and things I have noticed on Nek server....the MOST listed have been 27 guilds....no way near 40, and sometimes only 14 listed...and mine wasn't one of the 14.  Why is the recuitment window not showing a full 40?  A lot more small guilds would then have some presents if the full 40 were implemented.  There is a big need for filters. 
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Old 06-23-2008, 11:10 PM   #60
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Why the 40 limit (We could use a next pages buton to avoid scrolling on 100 guilds)Indication of the number of on line people could be added
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